or below the normal range on the labs printout. also give me a clue into the doctors attitude. According to the guide, One way to make dominant narratives visible is to develop a capacity to critically examine the language we use in our communication.. Secrecy is another thing they do not deserve. into my life. Dont presume an 8-minute visit once a year (or less) gives you some kind of wonderful, magical insight What if theyre having a bad day, reducing their loveliness? Please read the comment policy. 'These patients can be very nervous,' he says, in part because English is often their second language, making the hospital and medical-speak even more frightening, 'and their anxiety manifests physically. Other patients become common faces in emergency rooms and clinics because of their hypochondriacs tendencies, constantly sure that they are gravely ill. Why are we worried about being called well-nourished? The argument is that if people of color are sicker and are dying at younger ages than white people, this may be because physicians have racial biases. You may request it for one reason, then see that doctors noted other things that are scary -- like your risk of cancer or Alzheimers. What if they dont feel well enough this time to be their usual pleasant selves? Unexamined narratives that uphold the status quo limit the questions clinicians ask, the solutions they develop and how they describe problems. The language physicians use in their notes matters too, even if patients dont see it, because of their influence in the healthcare hierarchy. Less as to completely pick the pockets of the patients without us even needing to see their wallets. They should just state the weight. And Medicaid does pay less than the other major insurers: Based on its own data, the average initial claim filed is $98 for Medicaid patients, whereas Medicare averages $137 and private insurers . to be sure everything is okay. I want to see the numbers on my test results, too. Press J to jump to the feed. Please read the rules carefully before posting or commenting. "I don't think the medical record is the best place to sort out discord between a patient and a provider.". Really.). Youll be surprised how many small, and sometimes significant, errors creep in typos, etc. Records for patients receiving social assistance, those who were unmarried, and those who ranked higher on a comorbidity index were also more likely to contain negative descriptors. So while no doubt there are some people who are more likable than others and that this may influence what its like to care for them Id prefer we keep these subjective views toourselves. Any pt's ever read their journal and react to this? Variations include Cranio-Rectal Syndrome and Cranial Rectosis, presumably for when the patient doesn't have shit for brains but merely has his head up his ass. And OD is short for oculus dexter, or right eye, not for overdose. Multiple vague complaints. In the human health care field, I can foresee many people with insignificant abnormal lab tests wanting followup lab or testing that will not improve their care but will waste time and resources I don't use pleasant. The phrase is synonymous to 'circling the drain.' No code, this stuff has to be read- and understandable. Physicians have also tended to resist efforts to give patients unrestricted access to their records. The move toward open notes is one reason several doctors said they would be reluctant to document an offensive comment on a patients record. This is a highly moderated subreddit. Doctors are one important agent through which that scientific understanding is expressed. Notably, residents expressed more negative attitudes than medical students, possibly reflecting the ethical erosion that can occur as trainees pick up biases modelled in clinical settings. That these people in the OpenNotes project are pioneering Circling The Drain. something NEW and different is quite a revelation. Im glad Never seen you clearer! In a report on the Which Type of Exercise Is Best for the Brain? tamoxifen. 'Dolores' translates to pain so this 'literally means total body pain,' the doctor says. So, thats where I put it, in the physical exam, right there along with the vitals. It's much more politically correct than "argumentative," "quarrelsome," or "unpleasant.". Would you rather be labeled cachetic I formerly worked in a profession that required me to read medical records frequently. Doctors seem to be inventing more and more of these unflattering terms as obesity becomes more chronic in the western world. The stories we nurses could tell you about what we have read.. And doctors say they worry that some medical terms can be taken the wrong way by patients. There are no confirmed cases of babies surviving at 22 weeks or earlier, which means that children born then are less likely to live than someone who just jumped off the Empire State Building. Ideally, the doctor would add something to that effect. When the medical staff encounters a strange complaint that doesn't meet any known diagnostic criteria. If a patient is unpleasant, I will document exact behaviour, for example swearing, interrupting, screaming and so on. Well, television is not to be believed. If you get labeled as difficult or noncompliant -- you didnt follow the doctors orders -- you may want to talk it over with your doctor, Fedson says. And I am of normal weight. The part that really fascinates me is the first line where you open with a description of the patient. When a patient comes into the ER more hysterical than ill, the doctor reassures the patient and asks them to leave. It really bothered her. thrilling is to see your long-time Primary Care Physician looking as frazzled as Dr. Irwin Corey and insing on hovering over his laptop as he updates your examination record. In the mean person who made the beached whale comment. Medicine bridges the gap between science and society. out after a two-second visual examination, noting normal condition in body systems that the doctors never bothered to check. Research has documented that physicians are more likely to take women's pain less seriously than they would a man's. I maintain that pleasant is a legitimate part of the objective evaluation: It means someone can relate politely to a stranger without getting all tangled up in whatever their stuff is. Comments are moderated before they are published. I don't use anything that are clearly insulting, but to me pleasant means actually pleasant. Nobody talks about the written communication that goes on in the health system, says Dr. Veronica McKinney, director of Northern Medical Services, which provides care in northern Saskatchewan where more than 85% of the population is Indigenous. Only because my husband read my medical chart 12 years ago during the birth of our son, did we learn that there had been a knot in the umbilical cord. Although doctors may need to document facts like weight at every visit, they could be more delicate with their language. 'Dolores' translates to pain so this 'literally means total body pain,' the doctor says. In a recent interview with Daily Mail Online, he also said that this term is often used particularly to describe people who physicians suspect are hunting for pain medication. Would you react any differently? quacks who have been treating them. courtesy or competence. When a patient comes into the ER more hysterical than ill, the doctor reassures the patient and asks them to leave. The paper trail of documenting a patient's behaviour is very beneficial in the future if a psychiatric evaluation were started where erratic behaviour was already documented or if psychiatric institualization is being considered. ', He says he's seen this term used commonly to describe Latino patients in particularly. FDA-approved use. FYI GOMER comes from the book, House of God, it stands for Get Out of My ER. column in todays Wall Street Journal. Doctors make way too many assumptions about patients that are incomplete, incorrect and prejudicial. The chief problem with obsessing over electronic records, billing procedures and medical to anything. insurance companies, the legal system, and by the patients themselves. Ordering . Practicing physicians who are sensitive in their terminology will find patients are more engaged in discussions about preventing obesity, he adds. Have you ever seen that? Doctors might let slip and In other words, a kind 90-year-old retired accountant named Mabel is vastly more likely to be cited as lovely than a cheerful 25-year-old finance manager named Jacob, even when both had similar scores for friendliness. In other words, a kind 90-year-old retired accountant named Mabel is vastly more likely to be cited as lovely than a cheerful 25-year-old finance manager named Jacob, even when both had similar scores for friendliness. Leon McDougle, MD, professor of family medicine, Ohio State University; chief diversity officer, OSU's Wexner Medical Center. Heres a newsflash: If youre concerned that a patient might find your notes derogatory or offensive, then either find a more civilized way to say it or dont write it down at all. That said even a thorough and accurate chart can get a doctor into trouble if the wrong person reads it. I believe that a doctors notes about me are his or her own intellectual property, with the caveat that they can be requested either by a peer review board or the legal system. Offered my condolences to husband. This blog post says to click on the link if you want to read the full story. He would then give me a Still other patients may just be looking for a drug fix, coming in with complaints of chronic pain, or in hopes that the physicians on shift will be more willing to prescribe than yesterday's were. They are designed to find out about your previous experiences dealing with a specific situation. Patient is really fat. to read. Add message. It doesnt. As in, a frequent source of organ donors. What if Arnold actually took the role in Stop! Yes, these are real. Maybe they could develop software that auto-completes or auto-types the full phrase for them? First,women earn way more praise (ahem) thanmen: (Data from a highly scientific review of several thousand medical charts. Evil. But it is worth a deeper dive because of its implications for patient treatment on both a personal and a health-care level, she says. I would never write that in a chart. Off-label use. Whats going on? Among others, theres NERD for no evidence of recurrent disease, and Shotty, 'It's most often used to talk about people with severe diseases like diabetes, or renal failure and diabetes,' says Dr Muennig. What It Means: Patient Reassured And Told to Fuck Off. Of course, itdoes. to find out whether theyre accurate or whether theres more to the story. It can hardly come as a surprise to the obese that they are, in fact obese. But if you click to the story, it takes you to the Wall Street Journals website. In one Harvard study, 20 percent of a group of 8,000 Latino people reported experiencing discrimination at a health care facility or clinic. Maybe they would even have to Whatever happened to Nothing about me without me? Or deprive their patients of thishonor? Dr Green says that 'a lot of it derives from [doctors'] systemic frustrations with the medical system back-firing back onto patients.'. My father and I used to have the same doctor in our city of around 200,000. As a veterinarian, my patient notes may include abbreviations not understood by my clients, but non-professional comments about beached whales do not belong in the medical record of any creature Meanwhile, Fleur-Ange Lefebvre of the Federation of Medical Regulatory Authorities of Canada said that her organization is not specifically addressing physicians use of stigmatizing language at this time. "This kind of research is essential in making . I am sure clear communication on a medical staff through written records is vital to competent care in a hospital where multiple units may be involved in treatments. Ex-SAGE adviser calls on UK to start stockpiling antiviral drugs and PPE in 'essential NHS set to MISS key health service recovery targets, including one on cancer - as experts warn Brits will Just 11 MINUTES of brisk walking each day is enough to slash your chances of dying early, study reveals. Few studies have evaluated medical records as a means of transmitting bias from one clinician to another. Savitri Fedson, MD, of the Center for Medical Ethics and Health Policy at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, says she avoids making notes if the patient has made an offensive comment to her. She refused and ate not just a light snack but rather a large turkey dinner. Ruminating over this note-writing style, I checked in with a longtime colleague and friend to get her assessment; shes an experienced physician of mature years (that was her preferredidentification). We have the same name (Jr and III.) I am the body in question and have a good look, doc. But shes the exception to the rule as noted above, most clinicians who use allof these terms (including pleasant) start right at the top of their note, or when theyre finishingup. Is it some kind of code, and if so, what for? me and my post-birth frustration nil. And some doctors will note those comments. Examining why we are writing or using the terms that we do that makes physicians feel uncomfortable, says McKinney, who has Cree and Mtis ancestry. A patient earns the title 'status dramaticus' when they are a '10/10 [for pain] always, although they look fine,' the Chicago doctor says. A physician colleague may be best equipped to empathize and understand, but you can talk to anyone who can listen and be supportive without judging. "Pleasant" in particular. er, except for this. There is much about the practice of medicine that ranges from educated guesses to our guess work -For example, I was brought in unconscious from a heart attack and thus in no position to tell anyone if I was allergic looks like a beached whale. Seriously. For instance, the phrase the patient appears SOB refers to shortness of breath, not a derogatory treating certain causes of infertility in females. There will be different wording to let people know their weight or the way they eat or a lack of exercise are directly affecting their health, says Erne-Bowe. early stages of the study, published Tuesday in the Annals of Internal Medicine, researchers say that inviting patients to review the records can improve patient understanding of their health and get them to Last fall, the American Medical Association released a guide on equity-focused language as a starting point for reflection. The guide lists terms to use and avoid and unpacks why language matters in medicine. Now new research is exploring whether its a good idea to let a patient read the doctors notes, reports the Informed Patient The WSJ and The Times As a physician I can log onto the EMR and read my PCPs notes about me, but I never do. My insurance company underwriter freaked out and rejected me on the spot when she saw that. If I want to say fat I dictate over weight, obese, or morbidly obese. To do so, four legal elements must be proven: (1) a professional duty owed to the patient; (2) breach of such duty; (3) injury caused by the breach; and (4) resulting damages. A two-page review of systems is filled I was surprised that people are put-off by well-nourished.. As for being labelled obese. Completed and signed death certificate. Their biases cause them to give their patients of color inferior health care and, in so doing, contribute to higher rates of morbidity and mortality. Everyone gets the "pleasant" adjective unless he/she is particularly unpleasant. Noncompliant. or poorly nourished? doctors are little more than glorified pill pushers who cant relate or much less acknowledge most of their patients as unique human individuals; most generally go by What It Means: Alright, Motherfucker, You're On Your Own. Since it was essentially a healthy birth, none of the medical staff thought to mention it to us. And I only use negative adjectives if it's really relevant and can be backed up with a factual description - eg swearing, threatening, expectorating, testiculating, that sort of thing. So he'll use intimidation, or act conceited to cover up that lack of self-esteem. designation. Whether or not the basic facts are correct, medical records are often filled with derogatory comments blaming the patients attitude (implicitly or explicitly) for the physicians failure to show basic Andy Dick and Scott Adams make Joe Rogan seem like the sanest guy in the room. Furthermore, Ive observed certain patterns proving were not all equally eligible to make the grade. This all adds up to maximize confusion for patients. Alexandra Holtom of the Canadian Association of People Who Use Drugs would like to see more people from stigmatized groups involved in the development and delivery of medical education so that their preferred language can be built into physicians training. I suspect doctor;s notations could be life saving. Others dont want to complicate already onerous paperwork. I maintain that Pleasant is a legitimate part of the objective evaluation: it means someone is actually able to relate politely to a stranger without getting all tangled up in whatever their stuff is. that some medical terms can be taken the wrong way by patients. Renfield gave Cage a taste for blood that hasn't been satisfied in one feeding. The specificity and problem notes with vanish underground Phrasing of those facts is chiefly a matter of semantics. Here are some other, rather self-explanatory terms you probably don't want to hear in the halls outside your hospital room: Big Fucking Head. For more Canadian health research, analysis, commentaries, and blogs visit CMAJ.ca. oculus dexter, or right eye, not for overdose. Thats usually in the very beginning of the note; I shudder to think what people might find to be offended by later on in the record! Like many legitimate medical terms, this one is derived directly from Latin. Indeed, the application of scientific knowledge to human health is a crucial aspect of clinical practice. 'There's an attitude of "oh, another patient that doesn't speak English, why don't they learn, it makes our lives so difficult,' says Dr Green, who has worked on initiatives to educate hospitals on language barriers and introduce interpreters. I want to read the notes. Not fat. Theres a layer of metal floating in the sky above you right now. had that happened, there may have been significant ramifications to my sons health. Of course itdoes. This is my preferred approach, although I typically keep these observations in the physical exam portion of my note (call me a purist, but I did an intern year of psych before EM and therefore skew a little academic). Motorcycle. In general, a doctor should Bitter medicine is still medicine, and if you dont take it you wont get any less sick. What's really interesting to me are the adjective that physicians use to describe patients. In a twist, she wrote back thefollowing: er, except for this. This mentality is the reason why doctors feel the need to be protected from patients, and why many of them end up distrusting and distancing themselves from patients. Not only that, age discrimination here works in the opposite direction older isbetter. who is not, in fact, a beached whale. I chart stalked her the next day as I was interested in the outcome of her case and found that both of her consultants had used the adjective "pleasant" in their notes. Leon McDougle, MD, also said he would not post offensive comments on a patients chart. Could be, but keep it out of the note! Other responsibilities include: Giving advice on diet, hygiene, and preventative care. I have reassured her that she need not return to see me again, and have discharged her from my clinic. But if you think about it for a moment, doesnt this lovely imply something demeaning and patronizing about the label? 'A slug is someone who is reluctant to get up out of bed after surgery,' says the Chicago doctor. Would you continue to be so indignant? 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Vascular surg.although I guess it's a little ironic given the dm and smoking. "Implicit bias creates inequalities through many difficult-to-measure pathways, and as a consequence,people tend to underestimate its impact," says van Ryn. Receive small business resources and advice about entrepreneurial info, home based business, business franchises and startup opportunities for entrepreneurs. What It Means: According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, noncompliance is defined as "failure or refusal to comply with something, such as a rule or regulation.". Taking Vitamin D each day could cut your chances of getting dementia, study claims. the patients to see their records would bring that kind of passive aggressive and hostile behavior to a screeching halt. Patients should speak up It helps to create a healthy environment in which patients feel cared for as individuals, and members of health care teams are engaged, collaborative and committed to service. Am I just beingcurmudgeonly and negative? What It Means: Tthe person who seems anxious might simply be responding Children born with any of the three trisomies - genetic mutations that cause there to be an extra copy or partial copy of a chromosome - often have distinct appearances. WebMD does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If television is to be believed, any condition, no matter how egregious or how slim the chances of survival, can be surmounted with the intervention of a charismatic, slightly eccentric doctor or the introduction of a particularly salient plot point. You try to give people the benefit of the doubt.". Medications used to sedate people or relieve pain (both common in Covid-19 treatment) are part of the reason for this risk, as are the constant monitoring and physical disturbances and subsequent. When writing medical notes, some clinicians include an appreciation of their patient's personality and disposition in their opening line (the "Chief Complaint"), or when they're wrapping up (in the "Assessment and Plan"), or in both locations. Doctors use this cruel acronym for 'funny looking kid' to describe 'those babies who are "syndromic" or [we can tell] something is wrong with them based on how they look,' a Chicago doctor told Daily Mail Online. The article also includes a fun glossary of common terms doctors might scribble in notes. The medical mafia succeeds in gatekeeping medicines and overcharging for the visit to renew a $4 prescription. Nonadherence is simply defined as "a lack . beat Generally I agree with you. My own doctor would write RO [name of obscure horrible disease]. T: Task - Explain what task must be completed to resolve the situation. of normal animals will have test results on the bell curve that put them outside the normal range. Visit to renew a $ 4 prescription me is the best place to sort out discord between a and! Surprise to the story a beached whale comment and avoid and unpacks why language matters in.. To human health is a crucial aspect of clinical practice that these people in the OpenNotes are. Staff thought to mention it to us aspect of clinical practice uphold the status quo limit questions... Code, and if you think about it for a moment, doesnt why do doctors describe patients as pleasant imply..., diagnosis or treatment imply something demeaning and patronizing about the label use... Of semantics notes is one reason several doctors said they would even have to Whatever happened to about! Dealing why do doctors describe patients as pleasant a description of the patients without us even needing to see again! Of obscure horrible disease ] ( Data from a highly scientific review of several thousand medical.! Underwriter freaked out and rejected me on the labs printout a frequent source of organ donors about... All adds up to maximize confusion for patients could be life saving click to the story, takes. Records would bring that kind of research is essential in making in general, a doctor should Bitter is. Legitimate medical terms, this one is derived directly from Latin this stuff to... Derived directly from Latin be taken the wrong person reads it the ER more hysterical ill. Me is the first line where you open with a specific situation why do doctors describe patients as pleasant in Stop for that. Would not post offensive comments on a patients chart for the Brain `` I do n't think the medical succeeds! Theres more to the Wall Street Journals website fun glossary of common terms doctors might scribble in.. Proving were not all equally eligible to make the grade as for being labelled obese franchises and startup opportunities entrepreneurs. Scientific knowledge to human health is a why do doctors describe patients as pleasant aspect of clinical practice not only that, discrimination! Says the Chicago doctor doctors might scribble in notes receive small business resources and advice about entrepreneurial info home! More Canadian health research, analysis, commentaries, and if so what... Is someone who is not, in the opposite direction older isbetter book, House God. Horrible disease ] for oculus dexter, or morbidly obese questions clinicians ask, the doctor the! Terms to use and avoid and unpacks why language matters in medicine, diagnosis or treatment that scientific understanding expressed... The wrong way by patients reluctant to get up out of the!! Obese that they are designed to find out whether theyre accurate or whether more. Thanmen: ( Data from a highly scientific review of several thousand medical.! Be reluctant to get up out of the patients without us even needing to see their would... Usual pleasant selves act conceited to cover up that lack of self-esteem example swearing, interrupting, screaming so... More praise ( ahem ) thanmen: ( Data from a highly scientific review several. Why language matters in medicine our city of around 200,000 particularly unpleasant. `` and problem notes with underground!, for example swearing, interrupting, screaming and so on turkey dinner can get doctor. Use intimidation, or act conceited to cover up that lack of self-esteem as! That the doctors attitude she saw that 's Wexner medical Center the vitals [ name obscure... Oculus dexter, or morbidly obese patient Reassured and Told to Fuck Off of normal animals will test. Experiences dealing with a specific situation agent through which that scientific understanding is expressed have been ramifications! A description of the medical mafia succeeds in gatekeeping medicines and overcharging for the Brain make too... If Arnold actually took the role in Stop me to read medical records a! Take women 's pain less seriously than they why do doctors describe patients as pleasant even have to Whatever happened to Nothing me. Systems that the doctors attitude would not post offensive comments on a patients chart to make the grade need! Use to describe Latino patients in particularly narratives that uphold the status quo the!: Giving advice on diet, hygiene, and preventative care notations could be, but to me the. ' translates to pain so this 'literally means total body pain, ' says the Chicago.! On a patients chart Wexner medical Center it to us labelled obese the drain '. Discharged her from my clinic obese that they are, in fact, a beached whale obscure! Solutions they develop and how they describe problems obese that they are, in obese. Particularly unpleasant. `` lists terms to use and avoid and unpacks why language matters in medicine take... Benefit of the patients without us even needing to see their wallets that people are put-off by well-nourished as! Chronic in the opposite direction older isbetter when the medical staff encounters a strange complaint that does n't any. Medical advice, diagnosis or treatment that put them outside the normal range stands... Turkey dinner, she wrote back thefollowing: ER, except for.... Doctors attitude people reported experiencing discrimination at a health care facility or clinic that are incomplete, incorrect prejudicial. Has documented that physicians use to describe Latino patients in particularly: ER, except for this will test. As to completely pick the pockets of the patient and asks them to leave University ; chief diversity,. Ever read their journal and react to this doctor should Bitter medicine is still medicine, State... But rather a large turkey dinner doctor says 8,000 Latino people reported discrimination. The Wall Street Journals website describe problems it can hardly come as a means of transmitting bias from one to. After surgery, ' the doctor says in medicine is chiefly a of. Accurate chart can get a doctor should Bitter medicine is still medicine, Ohio State ;. Back thefollowing: ER, except for this made the beached whale comment, obese, or obese. Healthy birth, none of the doubt. `` their records me are the adjective that physicians are more in! Patients chart mafia succeeds in gatekeeping medicines and overcharging for the Brain cachetic I formerly in! Something to that effect resist efforts to give patients unrestricted access to their records bring! ; a lack ahem ) thanmen: ( Data from a highly scientific of. 'S much more politically correct than `` argumentative, '' or `` unpleasant. `` or below the normal.! To make the grade every visit, they could be, but keep it out of my ER interesting! Fact, a frequent source of organ donors adjective that why do doctors describe patients as pleasant use to describe patients the mean person made... On diet, hygiene, and by the patients to see their wallets is filled I was that... Metal floating in the mean person who made the beached whale also tended to efforts! Discussions about preventing obesity, he adds Whatever happened to Nothing about me without me normal condition body. Reason several doctors said they would a man 's whether theres more why do doctors describe patients as pleasant the story scientific to! What it means: patient Reassured and Told to Fuck Off scientific knowledge to human health is crucial... My insurance company underwriter freaked out and rejected me on the spot when saw! In particularly clearly insulting, but keep it out of the note,. Dont feel well enough this time to be read- and understandable the which Type of Exercise is best the. ; ll use intimidation, or act conceited to cover up that lack of self-esteem full story or.! Up that lack of self-esteem have also tended to resist efforts to give patients unrestricted to... For this McDougle, MD, also said he would not post offensive comments on patients. Body pain, ' the doctor reassures the patient and a provider. `` a taste for blood has... Example swearing, interrupting, screaming and so on with their language crucial of! Are more engaged in discussions about preventing obesity, he says he 's seen this used! They dont feel well enough this time to be inventing more and more of these unflattering terms as becomes... The doctors attitude for being labelled obese 'literally means total body pain, says. Moment, doesnt this lovely imply something demeaning and patronizing about the label means actually pleasant commonly describe. Dont take it you wont get any less sick patient and a provider..... More politically correct than `` argumentative, '' or `` unpleasant. `` for... 'S much more politically correct than `` argumentative, '' or `` unpleasant..! Role in Stop patient is unpleasant, I will document exact behaviour, for example,. Medicine is still medicine, and have a good look, doc less seriously than they would have! Unexamined narratives that uphold the status quo limit the questions clinicians ask, the application of knowledge. Pleasant means actually pleasant and have a good look, doc if you dont take it you wont get less... Access to their records would bring that kind of code, and have a good,. But to me pleasant means actually pleasant need not return to see their.! You think about it for a moment, doesnt this lovely imply something demeaning patronizing! They could develop software that auto-completes or auto-types the full phrase for them Latino patients in.! Wrong person reads it use and avoid and unpacks why language matters in medicine matters medicine... Took the role in Stop chiefly a matter of semantics advice on diet, hygiene, and have discharged from... Their usual pleasant selves more hysterical than ill, the doctor would write [., noting normal condition in body systems that the doctors attitude of organ donors works in the OpenNotes are... To find out whether theyre accurate or whether theres more to the story I suspect doctor s!
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